Sunday, April 16, 2023

Collective conversational peer review of Glorious Alchemy

More about collective conversational peer review here : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6103343/



Collective peer review initiated by sharing a leaf from the book 


[4/15, 6:55 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Ancient evidence for LLM tools such as chatGPT in healthcare? Check out the area of Sri yantra marked as Vasukona!



[4/15, 7:52 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Wonderful schema 👏

Bindu and Trikona are evidenced (shastra pramana) by tratak

What is the evidence offered for Vasukona?


[4/15, 8:56 AM] Rakesh Biswas: The center point of the yantra keeps trying and trying again to enter the sanctum sanctorum of the thousand petalled lotus yantra to merge with itself




[4/15, 8:57 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: 


What's the 'triad' to be collapsed to attain 'bindu'?



[4/15, 8:58 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Read the book or even review the literature!

This is one paper based book I have continued to read without reviewing the literature



[4/15, 8:59 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: @⁨Abhishek Aye AI⁩ Bindu means singularity?


[4/15, 9:15 AM] Kshitij 2018 Kims: +1?



[4/15, 9:48 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Nice contention... 

But *which* singularity?

Time, space, consciousness, energy... something else?





[4/15, 10:00 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Singularity is one and only




[4/15, 10:09 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: That is a challenge...

The *one* vs many *singularities* is a often a misrepresented concept...

Any exponential growth with no upper limit, or at least a feasible upper limit, is a singularity 

There can always be multiple singularities 

For instance, the singularity I often refer to is the *technological singularity*... that is the point of explosion *whereafter technology is capable of improving itself*

This is what we refer to as S*

However, the tech singularity will be slave to *energy* availability 

Hence the next singularity will be *energy singularity*



[4/15, 10:15 AM] Rakesh Biswas: What you refer to is the single focus of a certain area that exists in duality or plurality if you will 

We refer to the one and only



[4/15, 10:19 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Pertinent, and subsumptive, to S* are singularities feasible in all different avenues of human endeavour... typically covered under the UN ISIC

These are most certainly inclusive under the S* tech singularity... which may also be called the knowledge or consciousness singularity


[4/15, 10:21 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: However... this is very different from the *energy singularity*... which may also be considered to subsume the *matter singularity*

This is referred to in our internal literature as E*



[4/15, 10:22 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: S* and E* are essentially independent otherwise there can be no existence...

In classical literature, this may be taken as "purush" - S* and "prakriti" E*



[4/15, 10:26 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: There can be a contention of S* merging into E*, but that can only happen *before and after* creation but not within... 

While we contend non duality, but the non-dual assumes properties... these two reach two independent systemic *pole*... and can only be merged at *zero*



[4/15, 10:35 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: The challenge of considering only a unique singularity and not looking at S* and E* independently is that there can be not a feasible implementation ...

Quite like the tachyon based mind.

This is actually the fallacy of Turing Machine... it needs infinite energy



[4/15, 10:36 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Hence, from implementation perspective, it is beneficial to look at each of the ISIC singularities independently...


[4/15, 10:37 AM] Rakesh Biswas: All implementation are within duality that may undergo dissolution into one


[4/15, 10:37 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: For instance the *medical or healthcare singularity*... x amount of medical research increases life expentency by x



[4/15, 10:40 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: That is the challenge... that *one* (philosophical answer here) cannot "exist", hence there is no question on "one"

That is the conceptual *ShiVa* ... *existence without*... that *which* before creation and after dissolution...

There cannot be even *truth and falsity* in that state.... the fundamental concept of *nasadiya suktam*


[4/15, 10:44 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: The consideration even of that *one* is *avidya*... and it is accepted as to *vidya* and *avidya* are conscientious axioms...

This was the point of contention between Adi Sankara and Mandan Mishra

Of whether, the *avidya* exists in *brahma* or *jeev*

Now in the non dualist tradition brahma and jeev are one... if that is so then avidya exists in the brahma... then the brahma with avidya is not brahma!


[4/15, 10:46 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Nailed it 

That's our singularity


[4/15, 10:46 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: So a singularity... merging E* and S* cannot even be a singularity... it can only happen after dissolution


[4/15, 10:47 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Why not? 

Okay let's just say they are one?


[4/15, 10:47 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: That is not a workable singularity and that is the beauty of the work of Ramanujacharya.... in *vishista advaita*



[4/15, 10:49 AM] Rakesh Biswas: It's like a book from where a huge world made of the same paper pops out once you open it 

Once you close it the entire pop out goes inside and you are left with that one book



[4/15, 10:49 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: The concept of *they* cannot exist in that primordial state... there is no time... no space... no energy even...



[4/15, 10:50 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Well work ends there



[4/15, 10:50 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Yes they as in human perception or just before they become one


[4/15, 10:50 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: That "book" itself thereby violates the premises of singularity... for it to exists... it will need attributes



[4/15, 10:52 AM] Rakesh Biswas: It keeps pulsating between the form and formless (dissolution) states



[4/15, 10:53 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: That is where the concept of precept is necessary... the seed... or the seed provider...

The populist singularity concepts in vogue do not consider the dissolution of the Brahma



[4/15, 10:53 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Blame it on Hawking or Penrose ?



[4/15, 10:54 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Therefore, that is still avidya...

Yes it may pulsate... it does... and hence by your own contention... S* and E* are the emergent properties... hence purusha and prakriti



[4/15, 10:55 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Hence the question... which singularity?🙂



[4/15, 10:55 AM] Rakesh Biswas: The pulsating one



[4/15, 10:56 AM] Rakesh Biswas: The one with a pulse aka alive



[4/15, 10:56 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: They look at it more from what can be termed Charvak or at most Nyay...

Advaita ... is never supreme over Mimamsa or Vaisheshik



[4/15, 10:57 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: You miss the point!🙂

One... and pulsation...

That is not one..


[4/15, 10:57 AM] Rakesh Biswas: What are the differences between the three? Haven't reviewed yet


[4/15, 10:57 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Let me share some links on that... Good revision for me too 👍


[4/15, 10:59 AM] Rakesh Biswas: That one becomes two when alive?


[4/15, 11 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Anyway... as an aside... AyeAI's S* is a singularity for producing singularities... 

Worldly... not extra sensory... hence AyeAM... autonomous cyberphysical metaverse



[4/15, 11:00 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: No... there isn't even death and life...


[4/15, 11:00 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: There is a subtle difference with Tantra on this count


[4/15, 11:01 AM] Rakesh Biswas: That's true


[4/15, 11:01 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: The best source / summary of these is in Adi Sankara's Atma shatakam



[4/15, 11:02 AM] Rakesh Biswas: The Kunji I'm reading has incorporated Mr Adi


[4/15, 11:02 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Tantra assumes duality...

And the target is *shrugging off the mortal coil*... 

To be or not to be...



[4/15, 11:03 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Tantra is just a word for "systems"


[4/15, 11:03 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Need to read it to contend... there may be a different perspective... however, most often I have failed to see substance when writings are without experimentation... my own skepticist disposition



[4/15, 11:04 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: No... I refer specifically to the tantra of *Das mahavidya* sadhana



[4/15, 11:04 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Yes it's for first years into this branch (like me) 🙂



[4/15, 11:05 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Yes got that 

The book is again the author's personal roadmap for attaining those



[4/15, 11:06 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: The elemental *last* step... is non consequential...

Those claiming otherwise... subject them to the litmus test... of your psy dept 🙂🙏




[4/15, 11:07 AM] Rakesh Biswas: This author's last step is in the pulsation of the center around which the triad collapses (and there are many triads of plurality) @⁨Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims⁩



[4/15, 11:07 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: I wouldn't contend earlier... but now there is positively documented correlation of a better prediction of elements of nature... specifically rain...

Without contention its difficult to comprehend... 🙏



[4/15, 11:08 AM] Rakesh Biswas: I guess as human first years eager to start making a marK we just tend to imitate a role model



[4/15, 11:09 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: But those remain toys 😁... a few are non consequential...

Singularity is not necessarily  *samadhi*... which is a psychological state...

Equally attainable through LSD!



[4/15, 11:09 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Agreed. That it is not



[4/15, 11:11 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: That is perfectly fine, in my opinion...

My challenge has been my skepticist disposition... I haven't found many who tolerate the bombardment of counters😀

The last time someone did, our super computer was at the top... and that gentleman believes he is far removed from anything to do with philosophy


[4/15, 11:14 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Try it if you like...

I will give you Swami Vivekananda's three day challenge... again let me find the original text... intrlicution is likely to spoil your experience of a beautiful paradigm...

Let me just assert it work...



[4/15, 11:14 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: And my witness here shall be @⁨Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims⁩ 😀

Check your messages for rain...



[4/15, 11:14 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Will be looking forward to it



[4/15, 11:16 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: You already work with Earth... both your garden and your patients... maybe a deeper analysis... against probability of cure vs predictable outcome... After discounting extraneous factors will give you a retrospective on where you have humbly denied it 🙏



[4/15, 11:17 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Most recent in my list has been fire... and without a knowledgeable guide I wouldn't want to delve into that...



[4/15, 11:19 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Now... how do we test these statements  are not products of *grandiose delusions*?

Psychologists had to conflate with "originality clouds protocol" 😜



[4/15, 11:20 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Actually, I found both Penrose and Feynman mention this... Will share links



[4/15, 12:03 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/dqWVNjDcPXI



[4/15, 12:06 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Sorry... my repertoire of samples across all traditions is limited... hence shared from my regular toolbox...

Let me see if there is a closer allegory...



[4/15, 12:10 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/ZAnWI0-RIW4

Try this



[4/15, 12:11 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Ultimate "nature"... give us fearlessness


[4/15, 12:16 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/JTNn6-nlYQo

This gives English translation 

Ignore some aspects that the translator took the liberty at modifying...

Human form is not mentioned as written...


[4/15, 12:17 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: We are trained, unfortunately, to reject naively the "other" view... listening to another viewpoint should not change our own resolve...
And let me quote Kazi Nazrul Islam on that...







One of the best renditions by his son,




[4/15, 2:36 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: His refutals to Shankara's advaitha philosophy are famous and respected by followers of Advaitha like Swami Sarvapriyananda.
There's a commentary book from TTD(Tirumala Tirupathi Devasthanam) on it.


[4/15, 2:36 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Exactly...



[4/15, 2:37 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: He tells advaitha is somewhat Akin to nihilism


[4/15, 2:38 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Even if one is a pure advaitist... not sure how one can be... one has to follow methods of vishistha advaita to survive



[4/15, 2:40 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: 'Ramaujas counter to 7 tenets of advaitha'

Can't find the pdf.
It's 3 to 4 pages,that's it



[4/15, 2:43 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: The summary here on the Purusha - Prakriti / Jeev Brahma bhed should help interpret my earlier connotations today



[4/15, 3:04 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: These take a certain amount of structured study. Certainly way more non trivial than mere speculation based "out of tradition" narratives.

Somehow, more recently Indology scholars abroad have produced better papers than those here



[4/15, 3:24 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Now these become difficult to deal with academically!

No offense intended...

Vendanta in general is about more esoterism than Nyay or Vaisheshik traditions


[4/15, 3:26 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/bMDcDy72dvw

Will share playlists if I find




Playlist: Yoga sutras



[4/15, 3:27 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtube.com/@Aarshnyas

Follow the playlists available here


[4/15, 3:29 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Arsh nyas



[4/15, 3:29 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtube.com/@AcharyaPradyumnaOfficial

He covers Upanishads



[4/15, 3:32 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: They have the Veda samhitas...



[4/15, 3:35 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/TBNEizCsor0

Origin planet of these noyes and frequencies?





[4/15, 8:08 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Lovely book...

Great for beginners... interestingly the author is a physician


[4/15, 8:10 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: The consideration of _vamachara_ is subtle and beautiful

@⁨Rakesh Biswas⁩ you may be familiar with _Baam Khepa_


[4/15, 8:24 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: The focus on _hrim_ is appropriate for the householder...

The impatient* may want to engage _aim_ and _shreem_ with _hrim_ to activate dissolution faster. A bolus dose! But again, the author would have been careful that the book may be used as an auto didactic manual, and risks involved.

In traditional _kula_ methods _rajarajeswari_ is the third step before _tara_ and the timeless fearsome _kali_... some have prescribed _kamala_ by herself... some _neel saraswati_, though this should be first in my humble opinion as there exists a barrier created by social norms that needs to be shrugged off

The measure they say should be set by the guru... my experience found only meandering frauds or incompetent jokers in such garb

......
Impatient *like me 🙂 only few thousand hours I have had since birth and its already getting late!



[4/15, 8:28 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: In the _diksha_ section the author does identify that tradition wise the order of the mantras would be different

[4/15, 8:45 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: It's only in the separation of E* from S* that creation can exist


[4/15, 8:46 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: As was pointed out here


[4/15, 8:49 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Since _tantra_ has a older lineage than to Vedic analysis, at some point Swamiji was compelled, if I remember the reading correct, to give the correlates of vedic philosophical schools and _tantra_





[4/16, 4:23 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Continuing with the "esoteric"... 

the mystical is always intriguing 🧐 and we all love toys... 

Yoga, vedanta, and tantra are about *practice*... the other schools of philosophy and thought are about *analysis* and, maybe very little, *synthesis* 

We will look at some elements that I have gone public about, and one of them is a better *prediction of rain* than metereology departments... at times running on supercomputers I have crafted the components for!


[4/16, 9:11 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: Looks like we never covered the fundamental sutras


[4/16, 9:13 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/wM8Sm-_OAhs

This was possibly the first time I had heard the Nasadiya Suktam... Bharat Ek Khoj series on DD... primary school? Or younger?


[4/16, 9:18 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/Ugyrzr5Ds8o

He speaks from his theological frame of reference of a "personal" God... God as a person... vs an impersonal God...


[4/16, 9:19 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: He does cite from the Nasadiya Suktam at the beginning


[4/16, 9:24 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: He has mixed up Pongal and Paisam?


[4/16, 9:33 AM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/Nw2ONvI1j68

A UCSD Prof explains creationism in Vedic tradition
[4/16, 12 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/P-sTO3vhvr0

This one traditionally rendered and has English translations
[4/16, 12:03 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/0QiCFrzPPM0

Atma Shatkam
Also known as
Nirvan Shatkam

The six stanzas of life or liberation
[4/16, 12:06 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/q-ZCXjbMJ34

Another beautiful composition by Adi Shankara
[4/16, 12:10 PM] +91 88018 12118: https://youtu.be/ddlcxETNvb4

Nirvana shatakam by sadguru Isha foundations lyrics



[4/16, 12:34 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/0Vd6xbQDTYs

Shri Suktam ...

Worshipping the Creator in the form of the Mother...

Father, mother... these are allegorical only... exist in our dimension... 

She is called Harini... while the common purport is that of a doe, a female deer... Hari ... Harini...

Hari is the primordial property of the creator which "seizes"  our senses... Harini is the feminine form of Hari

Now, our worldly senses can only be seized by that which they desire... worldly satients... objects that satisfy the senses... in other words the Vishay of the Indriyas... the object of the senses...

Vishay Anu... the minutest, indivisible constituents that make up the Vishay... thereby... Vishnu ... which _samas_ is this word?

From there the common view of the personified Vishnu and Lakshmi arise...

Lakshmi... feminine target of the senses...


[4/16, 12:36 PM] Rakesh Biswas: Exactly and you may notice that she talks about the "descent of creation" (presumably from the one) along with the ascent of sadhana (toward one)?


[4/16, 12:47 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Ascent and descent are metaphorical... in _trataka_ the transcendence, the meditant and the meditation are expected to attain unity


[4/16, 12:48 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: But all this still remains within creation...

Hence cannot be an ultimate singularity without dissolut


[4/16, 12:52 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Just a disclaimer for anyone trying out tratak... Best do it under a guru... or at least with a peer around... 

The brain enters states where you may need a little support...


[4/16, 12:53 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Its fun to observe how we can make the EEG dance even with a little practice of tratak for a few months


[4/16, 12:55 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Even my single channel device is able to capture that... 

Neurosky Mindwave...

Or DIY folks can get EEG kit... just don't connect to any mains supply in any manner... again, only if you know what you're doing



[4/16, 12:58 PM] Rakesh Biswas: We need it in our ICU asap


[4/16, 1:00 PM] Rakesh Biswas: Agree dissolution is a must but the whole idea I guess is that of a state of dissolution that exists in singularity that we are currently able to witness from our dual or plural perch?



[4/16, 1:00 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: We cannot observe it...


[4/16, 1:01 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Observation is a mark or rather signature of duality



[4/16, 1:01 PM] Rakesh Biswas: Yes it can only be experienced?




[4/16, 1:01 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: It cannot be experienced either... 

This is where Mimamsa and Vedanta differ


[4/16, 1:02 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: There can be realisation... that you are that...

But in that too... its not a true singularity... only its notion



[4/16, 1:07 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Even thoughts do not exist in the final state... there is no need to know... but there is all knowledge ..

Actually... this bit I demonstrate to my close collaborators using a Flatland to higher world transition based exploration of "dimensionality"...

I guess there is reason for that to be public too ..

Was holding onto too much of unpublished work... (because it was working 😁... you hold onto a work till its working .... whoever conjured this language called English... !!!)




[4/16, 1:14 PM] Rakesh Biswas: Reminds of Michio Kaku's Hyperspace



[4/16, 1:23 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Object of Hilberts work...

Almost everything needs to be proven in Hilbert manifolds now



[4/16, 1:23 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Hilbert manifolds



[4/16, 1:26 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: The psychological dimension is mistaken with the physical....

There is a psychological attainment of unity... of an attainable state of mind...

Folks take partial examples from SMB Gita to justify that...

Whereas the author of SMB Gita actually gives the instance that life entails breathing... how can there be zero karma?


[4/16, 1:27 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: The "one" state which causes realisation of the Brahma ... is not necessarily the psychological state of desire less (wrongly construed as libido less... that's possible through ADT...  sorry no offence)


[4/16, 1:29 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: The Nasadiya ref to there was no *all pervading water* is an improper translation... the archaic Sanskrit root for water is also the root dimensions... for flow



[4/16, 1:32 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Partial, or clandestine,  interpretation of _brahma gyan_ schema leads to the idea that all will be known *just like that*...

That was not our tradition... that's bluffing...

Yes, the schema may be used to predict... but specific properties will be needed to get specific answers



[4/16, 1:33 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Next is the Purusha Suktam



[4/16, 1:35 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://youtu.be/1mAH98Eb5iY

The initial Shanti shloka is not translated...


[4/16, 1:36 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: The reference to 1000 is for very large... essentially the reference is to dimensionality schemas



[4/16, 1:51 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragia_involucrata

This plant is called *bichuti* in Bangla... don't have its context in other languages... 

It has a huge context in *self realization*... the psychological variant



[4/16, 1:53 PM] Abhishek Aye AI: Anyone claiming such innate tranquility of mind, just rub its prickles on their arms...

In about a minute, there may be a greater realisation...

Disclaimer: Not analysed for legal correctness... hardened criminals and trained special ops commandos may give false positives in this test



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