UDLCO CRH: cross-cultural links between the Camino de Santiago, European paganism, and the ancient Vedic Rishis

 The esoteric cross-cultural links between the Camino de Santiago, European paganism, and the ancient Vedic Rishis represent a fascinating convergence of archeo-astronomy, linguistic inheritance, and a shared spiritual mapping of human life. While the modern Camino is known as a Christian pilgrimage, its path, geographic orientation, and symbolic roots share deep DNA with both Celtic-Pagan traditions and ancient Indian cosmic philosophies. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

CC licence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Camino_Primitivo_(1433111595).jpg

CC licence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Samos_on_the_Camino_Way.jpg

The fundamental layers connecting these seemingly disparate traditions span several notable spiritual and historical domains:

1. The "Path of the Stars" and the Celestial Alignment

• The Camino: Long before it became the Way of St. James, the Camino route was known as the Via Lactea (the Milky Way route) or Via Finisterre. Pre-Christian European Pagans (primarily Celts) walked this exact path due West across the Iberian Peninsula, tracking the sun and the stars until they hit Finisterre (the "End of the Earth"). It was a solar and stellar pilgrimage dedicated to cosmic orientation and transition.
• The Vedic Connection: In the Rigveda, the macrocosm and microcosm are perfectly mirrored via Ṛta—the cosmic, natural order. The ancient Vedic Rishis (sages) were essentially seers who mapped cosmic alignments, constellations, and solar paths into internal spiritual disciplines. Walking toward the setting sun (Finisterre) to witness the "death" and "rebirth" of light mirrors the Vedic transitions of consciousness and the daily solar meditations (Sandhyavandanam) practiced by ancient sages. [2, 3, 7, 8, 9]

2. The Shared Proto-Indo-European Root

• European Paganism (Celtic, Germanic, Slavic) and Vedic Hinduism are sister cultures that branched out from the same Proto-Indo-European (PIE) root.
• Linguistically and mythologically, the similarities are stark. The Celtic Druids and the Vedic Sages (Rishis) shared a striking number of cognates, a reliance on oral tradition, a profound reverence for natural sanctuaries (like sacred groves and rivers), and specific conceptual frameworks regarding the immortality of the soul and reincarnation. [1, 11]

3. The Pilgrimage Metaphor: Outer Path, Inner Reality

• The Rishi Route: In Hindu philosophy, the path of the Rishis (Rishi Marga) is a journey of shuddhi (purification) and satya (truth).
• The Camino Structure: Esoterically, the grueling physical demand of the Camino represents an externalized map of an inner awakening: departure, physical trial, ego dissolution, and spiritual transformation. Whether a pilgrim is chanting a Vedic mantra or walking silently through the Galician countryside, the mechanism is identical—using physical displacement through sacred terrain to break down psychological boundaries and find direct communion with the divine. [9, 12, 13, 14]

Summary of Intertwined Concepts

Dimension	The Pagan Camino	The Vedic Rishi Tradition
Cosmic Guide	The Milky Way (Via Lactea) and solar tracking to the West.	Ṛta (the universal cosmic order) governed by solar and stellar deities.
The Destination	Finisterre ("End of the Earth"), representing the edge of the physical world and transition to the afterlife.	Moksha or Samadhi—the edge of material reality where the ego "dies" to reveal absolute truth.
The Practice	Shedding identity, enduring physical hardship, and walking in communal harmony (Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam).	Tapas (spiritual austerity/heat generated through physical and mental discipline).

Are you exploring this connection from a historical/linguistic perspective, or are you looking at it as an esoteric framework to prepare for your own personal journey or pilgrimage?

AI responses may include mistakes.

[1] https://www.quora.com/How-similar-were-ancient-European-pagan-religions-to-early-Hinduism-given-that-they-both-had-a-linguistic-and-cultural-heritage-going-back-to-the-original-Proto-Indo-European-speakers

[2] https://www.iberianadventures.com/a-pagan-history-of-the-camino/

[3] https://www.spiritualityhealth.com/pagan-pilgrimage-reconnect

[4] https://ddmishra.medium.com/were-aryans-and-pagans-connected-63ede4342607

[5] https://www.thelivingphilosophy.com/p/history-camino-de-santiago

[6] https://www.iberianadventures.com/history-of-the-camino/

[7] https://www.instagram.com/p/DSFEVdjjJdb/?hl=zh-cn

[8] https://www.facebook.com/sanatandharmayogi/posts/the-sages-behind-the-vedas-%EF%B8%8Frishis-rishikas-who-shaped-bharatiya-wisdomreheritag/1255169953097127/

[9] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Spiritual-View-of-Indian-History-Continuity-of-the-Rishi-Route-Source-A-Brief_fig1_322203362

[10] https://www.academia.edu/43397791/In_Search_of_Vedic_Wisdom_Forms_of_Alternative_Spirituality_in_Contemporary_Russia

[11] https://branawen.blogspot.com/2011/10/celtic-and-vedic-gods-and-goddesses.html

[12] https://legrandgrimoire.com/guides/sacred-sites/what-is-pilgrimage-a-simple-explanation/

[13] https://susanjagannath.com/walking-the-camino-like-a-hindu/

[14] https://susanjagannathauthor.medium.com/walking-the-camino-like-a-hindu-ddfdd383c723

Conversational transcripts:

[28/08, 18:39]hu1: The "Camino de Santiago" is the modern name for a path that Pagans walked thousands of years before it was even Roman or before it was appropriated by the church for itself. Especially the Camino Frances. Roman historians called it the Prominadium Celticum. It ended at a Neolithic altar in Muxia. In the Roman era it ended in Finestera. The "Christian" label is only about a thousand years old. I walk it as as a tourist , a hiker , as an adventure. There are ancient energies there. There are more than a dozen anthropological sites and museums on the Frances and del Norte that explain this. The Camino is ancient. Galicia is Druid territory with it's language reflecting it.

The Cathedral in Muxia was a Pagan temple long before Christiandom

 There's an energy of Love on the Camino

[28/08, 20:19]hu2: "Kaminon! Iske sar par barf ka ek bada tukda rakh do. Jab barf piglegi toh isko thand lagegi, aur jab thand lagegi toh yeh kambal mangega... kambal mein humne pehle se hi bomb laga rakha hai!"

[29/08, 00:11]hu1: Camino days

[29/08, 00:15]hu1: Kamina met Kamini on the Camino but kamina was Peregrino so he did not kamikaze his Camino

UDLCO CRH: Bilaskhani todi and it's anecdotal origins

TITLE: THE SCROLL AND THE STRINGS

EXT. AGRA FORT - COURTYARD - DUSK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Akbar_and_Tansen_visit_Haridas.jpg

Torches flicker against towering red sandstone walls. The air is heavy with the scent of attar, woodsmoke, and the damp dust of the Yamuna basin.

Inside the grand assembly hall, EMPEROR AKBAR sits cross-legged on a velvet bolster, chin resting on his thumb. Around him, nobles, courtiers, and scholars hold their breath.

In the center of the marble dais stand two men from the Gangetic plains. They wear simple cotton dupattas draped over their shoulders—a stark contrast to the brocades of the Mughal elite.

The younger man, Rambilas Pandey, closes his eyes. He cradles a worn string instrument. When he strikes the first note, it is an ancient, haunting melody—carrying the deep, devotional resonance of a southern shore, echoing the sacred Hanuma Todi of the distant Carnatic temples, yet softened with a cadence that hums like a Persian caravan song.

AKBAR leans forward, mesmerized.

AKBAR

(Whispering to a courtier)

Magnificent. It weaves the soul of the south with the breath of our soil. What do we call this architecture of sound?

The courtier bows low.

COURTIER

Jahanpanah, the boy calls it his own reflection. But the people shall know it by his name.

AKBAR

Then let it be so. Henceforth, whispered across the empire, let this masterpiece bear the honorific of the house: Bilaskhani Todi. And let him carry the title of Khan, for mastery knows no lineage save excellence.

INT. THE INNER CHAMBERS - LATER

Shadows stretch across a dimly lit alcove. Piled high are palm-leaf manuscripts brought by travelers from the Vijayanagara ruins, alongside fresh Persian folios.

The elder man, RAMTANU, sits tuning his tanpura, his fingers calloused and steady. Rambilas enters, wiping sweat from his brow, clutching his instrument.

RAMBILAS

(Exhilarated)

They loved it, Pitaji. They wept when the microtones shifted. But... they still whisper of the Southern stream—the memory of Purandara Dasa’s camp, and the stark leap of the Shubhapantuvarali we heard in the twilight by the southern rivers.

RAMTANU

(Smiling faintly)

A melody is a river, my son. It finds its own banks. But the old southern name—Enna Rakshisho, and that sprawling Carnatic Hanuma Todi—it is a mouthful for these northern tongues. They seek simplicity. They seek faces they know.

RAMBILAS

And what of your own rendering? The one where we wove the teevra madhyama—the sharp fourth—borrowed from the southern temple chants? The court waits to hear your version tomorrow.

RAMTANU

Let them listen. When I weave the deeper grief and the soaring climb into our northern modal framework, they will search for a name to anchor it.

RAMBILAS

And what will they call it?

RAMTANU

(A gentle, knowing smile)

They will call it the master’s work. They will call it Miyan ki Todi. Titles like Miyan and Khan are merely cloaks we wear for the court, Rambilas. The notes belong to the wind.

EXT. AGRA FORT - DAWN

The sun breaks over the Yamuna.

A scribe dips his reed pen into ink, carefully updating the imperial music registry for Akbar’s court:

• Raga Bilaskhani Todi — attributed to the brilliant young innovator, Bilas Khan.
  
  
• Raga Miyan ki Todi — perfected by the peerless maestro, Tansen.
  
  

FADE OUT.

Based on the conversational content below, provide a story similar to a descriptive and yet crisp and short movie script (a post modern medeival narrative incorporating all the trappings and feel of the Mughal era during Akbar and Tansen) on how Ramtanu Pandey and his son Rambilas were instrumental in renaming two of the major carnatic ragas (then just called Indian music ragas and later currently represented as South Indian classical music ragas) as what is currently known as North Indian Todi (Rambilas's raga was named after him as Bilaskhani todi and Ramtanu's was recognised as Miyan ki Todi, both khan and Miyan being honorifics bestowed by the Mughal emperor). Please do maintain the suspense of the fact that Rambilas Pandey was Bilas Khan and Ramtanu Pandey was Tansen and give it away only at the end of the short crisp narrative.

Conversational learning Transcripts:

[24/11/2025, 14:23]hu2: For the last few weeks on listening to Hanuma Todi and Subhapantuvarali I was composing this tale of how Bilaskhani todi had naturally been derived from Hanuma todi particularly considering the fact that Puranadara Dasa and Ramtanu Pandey aka Tansen had substantial overlap in their timelines it's likely there would have been substantial interchange and I was looking forward to illustrate all this with the fantastic Hanuma Todi by Puranadara Dasa followed by Bilaskhani Todi to show the minimal differences if any in oscillations and postulate that the label 'miya ki todi' came later as most people perhaps heard Rambilas Panday aka Bilas Khan sing Hanuma Todi earlier and compared it with Ramtanu's todi as the only difference between Hanuma Todi and Subhapantuvarali was in the teevra madhyama and hence they renamed it Miyan ki Todi as Subhapantuvarali was a mouthful to remember!

And to add some sectarian fire I thought I would also add that Miyan is just an honorific prefix for anyone who is respected and calling someone Miyan doesn't change his religion. Not sure how Rambilas Pandey became a Khan but I'm willing to wager another sectarian hypothesis that even Khan is a common honorific suffix and it also doesn't have anything to do with religion.

I searched the internet for similar stories around Bilas Khan and was pleasantly surprised to find that the person who came closest to documenting this hypothesis is our group member @⁨George Howlett⁩ !

 https://ragajunglism.org/ragas/bilaskhani-todi/

[24/11/2025, 17:05]hu1: definitely pursue this research! a lot of the conclusions in my writeup rely on Deepak Raja’s excellent analysis - which basically concludes that Bilaskhani Todi’s origins are a mystery… although the Carnatic Hanumatodi is a plausible candidate

[24/11/2025, 17:10]hu1: unlike many raga origin myths, it is at least plausible based on historical events:

[24/11/2025, 17:12]hu1: and there was more North-South musical interchange in the past than people often realise!

[24/11/2025, 17:12]hu2: Yes I shall add more narrative and the original music of the 15th century Hanuma Todi to it

[24/11/2025, 17:13]hu1: I’m doing some deep research on raga history at the moment, will see what I find that is relevant!

[24/11/2025, 17:17]hu1: e.g. some fascinating North-South interchange (from my notes)

[24/11/2025, 18:38]hu1: just came across this in my research…the 13 core melodic motions according to the Datillam, an aesthetic textbook from about 1800 years ago

[24/11/2025, 19:30]hu2: Precious

[24/11/2025, 19:33]hu2: You'll find Venkatamakhin's melakarta scheme much more easier to navigate than Bhatkande's system.

Check out how this system easily accommodates every raga known yet 👇

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Janya_ragas

[24/11/2025, 22:14]hu1: haha yes agreed - I've carried out a similar derivation process myself, to account for the other sampurna scales...as lots of others have also done before me (32-scale system rather than 64, due to the Hindustani swara system being less ambiguous)

https://ragajunglism.org/ragas/thaat/#more

[24/11/2025, 22:15]hu1: and I've only been able to find Hindustani matches for 36 of the 64 Carnatic melas...and even then many of them are borrowed from the South anyway!

https://ragajunglism.org/ragas/masterlist/#melakarta

[24/11/2025, 22:15]hu1: let me know if you know any other raga matches I've missed...

[25/11/2025, 06:01]hu1: I found something for you on Hanumatodi's history - from Venkatamakhin's Chaturdandi Prakashika (the origin of the 72 melas):

[25/11/2025, 06:01]hu1: from Sreenivas Rao's incredible series on raga history

https://sreenivasaraos.com/2015/06/12/music-of-india-a-brief-outline-part-nineteen/

[25/11/2025, 08:53]hu2: Precious

[28/11/2025, 07:16]hu1: more on Bilaskhani Todi's possible origins from my research notes (via Bor's Raga Guide)

the 1856 text referenced is the Madan al-Musiqi by Muhammad Karam Imam Khan

[28/11/2025, 08:54]hu2: Interesting counterpoint

[02/01, 10:10]hu2: https://youtu.be/9m1Hf-iA-Hw?si=D7lO0jLd9eXNpA04

The Todi tasveers depicted here also reminded me to work on another hypothetical story script around the origins of hindustani todi from the carnatic Hanuma Todi. Had been putting off writing the  anecdote taking time to absorb the similarities and differences by altogether bundling the carnatic origin hypothesized hindusthani todis here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvYjjuT_hEESeL1vMHYOrk82uP9asL3CW&si=oMaDrHUIxKhFYM-W

Looking forward to learning further from the group inputs here around this Hindusthani todi from the Carnatic story project veering around the lives of Ramtanu and Rambilas Pandey, father and son who set off on a journey to visit some camps where the disciples of their guru's guru, the legendary singer who composed popular raaga structured haridasa kirtanas were staged. 

Younger Rambilas picked up Hanuma Todi and while his rendition of it in Akbar's court was well received by the majority as he made it resemble a Persian folk tune (later audaciously renamed Sindhu Bhairavi), Ramtanu later coached him to redesign it as per the chalan of Shubhapantuvarali that he had picked up from the same camp, from the composition famous at that time as: Enna Rakshisho and the music is as linked above. Gradually people started identifying Hanuma Thodi as redesigned by Ramtanu as Rambilas's todi and Ramtanu's shubhapantuvarali as mian ki todi!

[03/01, 07:44]hu1: not yet, but I'll have another round of research soon - I couldn't find much about his life last time!